Classic WoW Wiki talk:List of creature icons

Requests
''When making a request, please bare in mind the usefulness of the icon, in other words will it be used? Generally NYI races/creatures should not be requested as making the icon does require some sort of image to work off of. Creatures of similar nature or different skin/fur colors should also not be requested as in we don't need a icon for polar bears, black bears, and brown bears.''
 * Azure dragon (use dragonspawn overlord model)
 * Azure dragonspawn
 * Azure dragonwhelp
 * Azure drakonid
 * Nether drakonid
 * Twilight drakonid (Twilight Drakonaar)
 * Wendigo
 * Snobold
 * Undead quilboar--Lon-ami (talk) 16:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Mage Slayer-- Aedror42 (talk) 21:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fel dragon
 * Felboar
 * Sasquatch (NYI)
 * Jungle stalker (NYI)
 * Spider crab (NYI)
 * Hermit crab (NYI)
 * Crystal dryad
 * Crystal satyr
 * Yeti ("northern yeti", while the current yeti icon would become the wendigo icon)-- Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 07:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Requests replies
Azure dragons should just use the blue icons, they are the same flight.. just given a new look, as I'm sure they'll do with the dragonflights for future expansions...maybe... For Wendigo just use Yeti →. 01:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Azure dragons are just a personal request, since, well, there's no one appearing in-game right now xDDD. For Wendigos, they are pretty different from yetis.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Like Coobra said, azure = blue. As for wendigos, they look just like the yetis present before Wrath of the Lich King. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, please, Wendigos are way different from yetis. Just look this and tell me again they are the same.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That big creature is the new model for yetis. The old model for yetis was the wendigo model which was used for both of them. So essentially, you can now use the yeti icon for wendigos. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * What Rolandius says is true. Also a little tidbit according to the monster guide wendigos are only known to exist in Dun Morogh, whereas their cousins the Yeti are the ones that exist everywhere else. Though it seems Blizzard uses both terms interchangeably. 23:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Like Coobra said, wendigos seem to like cold enviroments but in a more southernly area like Dun Morogh. Sasquatches and "jungle stalkers" also exist but they are not in WoW. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Requests removed/explained
Mage slayer already exists use Darkhound  23:48, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Wendigo/Yeti use Yeti ; Snobold are Kobolds, use Kobold ; Felboar are helboars use Helboar. As a general rule, creatures from Warcraft III (especially critters) that have not appeared in WoW otherwise known as NYI don't get icons as they won't even be used. If anything Crab already exists. 20:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Remember, the title of the section was "requests and suggestions". A suggestion is just that, a suggestion. It does not have criteria. Making a request could have criteria. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Snobolds aren't kobolds, the same way gorloc aren't murlocs, and have a way different model. And the new wendigo/yeti has a different model, so different icon. At least I would prefer to have the new icon to distinguish between mobs. I don't understand why they aren't viable requests.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The new yeti icon really, really looks different from the old wendigo icon so I don't see why it isn't a good suggestion either... Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Very well, I made snobold and the northrend yeti . 04:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Stuff
Thank you Varghedin,I saw you`re page when I was doing this.Thank you!-- 21:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

God I lost controll of my page,Also who put the WoWWiki before the page name??-- 17:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * First time editing a wiki? --Pcj (T&bull;C) 17:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

No because someone changed this long ago.Just who did it.-- 17:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sky moved it. In any case, sorry for all the edit conflicts :P It's a great page! 17:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you.And it`s ok.And Thank you!-- 18:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Should we keep fel orcs under demons, it even says that the main un-demonic army of the Legion was Fel orcs Mr.X8 00:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

They`ve bean corrupted so yes.-- 01:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

It says they're non demonic so I'm not too convinced, I won't changed it however. Mr.X8 01:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Lyer,you just did!If there in humanoid then you might as well put satyr in too...*rolls eyes*-- 17:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

No, the satyrs have confirmed to be demons. Well I think... Mr.X8 17:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

There same as Fel Orcs just one is based off Night Elf and the others Orc.There Corrupted the same.-- 00:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

We should put it under both. Like in the famous people category, people like for example Azshara are in the NE and Naga section.

Read the lesser Demon part of Demon,Fel Orcs are in there.-- 17:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Draenei
Shouldn't Broken Draenei and Lost Ones go under Non-playable Draenei? 17:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Classes?
"List of race and class icons" as a page name implies that we'd see class icons. So, uhm, where are they? :) Hekirou 16:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh ya...and we need to catch up on races 22:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Whine, whine, whine... okay, I added class and talent tree mini icons. They were on the other mini icon page. -- [[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 7:37 PM PST 5 Dec 2007
 * <3 Hekirou 14:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, ask and ye shall receive, huh. Thanks all, this page is instantly a hell of a lot more useful already.  Hekirou 14:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Missing Icons/races
Here's a good spot to place what you think is missing, so that it can be added in later. Also, if it has been added feel free to remove it from this list. I'll start it. 20:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Comments
We know 21:26, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I know we know, this list is meant to help/remind. That's what the discussion page is for...communication. 21:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

† Ok, oh and there is no NE or dwarf child, they use the same model, only smaller. 21:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * very well 21:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I looked at a screenshot of and she does indeed look like a minaturized adult Night Elf. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]]  Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 2:53 PM PST 7 Dec 2007


 * Added some new requested icons above. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 4:08 PM PST 7 Dec 2007


 * Not skinny spider,there both the same 00:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Hell they're not. One is based on a black widowish body, the other has a more tarantula like form. And why are sporebat, wendigo, yeti, and warp stalker crossed out?  Mr.X8  Talk Contribs  01:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * They're crossed out to represent they were added. As I hope someone would do when they do add one of the to the page. 01:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mr.X8, Airiph.  01:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * By skinny-leg globe-like, I mean:
 * http://www.wowhead.com/images/screenshots/thumb/2025.jpg|http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=18467
 * As opposed to thick and hairy like:
 * http://www.wowhead.com/images/screenshots/thumb/35608.jpg|http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=505
 * --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 5:17 PM PST 7 Dec 2007

Yeah,I know,then we would have to have diffrent ones for EVERY single diffrent silthid etc,those 2 spiders are the same race 01:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not every single different silithid... ;-) If all spiders get lumped in together, then why not use the ogre icon for furbolgs? They're both humanoid aren't they? --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]]  Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 5:24 PM PST 7 Dec 2007
 * I'd have to agree with this. If we need a certain Icon for a certain mob/npc it would be nice to use the correct one. If I'm talking about a lion, I wouldn't want to have to use a saber icon. 03:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Then should we have seperate pages for those? 01:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I originally started making these icons to use on pages like Stranglethorn Vale NPCs, Enchanting trainers, Blackwater Raiders and Scourge. To be honest, I don't see much use at all for most of the proposed icons, and indeed many of the ones who have already been made are not in use except for this and similar pages. -- 08:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Lava Elementals
Should lava elementals be considered on the list of elementals, or just categorized as earth elementals (due to their look)? 20:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * They seem to use mostly an earth elemental model, but elemental categories have nothing to do with the models. Currently lava elementals fall under Elemental Conglomerates. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 6:25 PM PST 10 Jan 2008


 * Ah, ok then. But should we add them to the listing on the main icon page with the other elementals...of course that would require making icons for them as well... 03:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Add requests to the Missing Icons/races section list above. Not sure if anyone is actively making icons, but at least we have a list. --[[Image:gengar orange 22x22.png]] Fandyllic  (talk &middot; contr) 4:24 PM PST 15 Jan 2008

Template
I made a table to use on my user page to make it less graphic-intensive. It might have other practical uses as well? -- 20:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

But the humanoids part you need to do th br/ thing to because its so looooooong.But other than that good job! 21:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Ogre female
There is no evidence that picture is of a female ogre so it should be removed. Zarnks (talk) 23:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I beg to differ. -- 23:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It is simply next to the words "creatures of the land". It is not labeled anything it could be Griselda or a cut creature. It being an ogre is entirely speculation. Zarnks (talk) 02:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Griselda isn't a "creature of the land", she is an orc. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Neither are ogres technically as they aren't from Azeroth. Either way you have no proof that is an ogre. Zarnks (talk) 03:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ogres are technically "creatures of the land" in the Warcraft I manual. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Beasts & critters
Why are the animals separated into subcategories based upon how many legs/limbs they have? It seems quite contrived. -- 15:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not exactly sure why, its been like that since I've seen it... probably the same reason why the other grps are separated. 21:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm making the subcategories more intuitive and mutually exclusive, since a creature can be terrestrial, bipedal and winged at the same time and thus hard to place like it is now. -- 00:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, that looks a whole lot better. 06:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

First Generation Death Knight Icon
I think the icon should look like Teron Gorefiend. Who ever does these icons u think u could make that happen? I've seen your work, you can do it:D-- Maelstrong 00:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC) Also maybe a Third Generation Death Knight Icon. If he doesnt read this page could someone please transfer this over to his User Talk, its crowded and i dont want to mess it up-- Maelstrong 01:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

The first gen DK does look like Teron Gorefiend. That's how they looked like. For third gen, we have. -- 06:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Third generation is a class not a race 00:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. You can't represent an orc death knight with a human death knight icon anyway. -- 13:16, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Too many icons
Why are there icons of individual characters? I see no point. -- 17:45, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you have a point there.


 * Some icons, like Vashj's, should be there as, for example "Naga Sea Witch", but others, like Varian, should remain in other section.


 * It's just an idea.


 * --Lon-ami (talk) 17:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I originally made the icons like Illidan and the Lich King because representing them with the icons for a simple night elf male and death knight icon seemed contrived. But then I thought it'd be neat to represent the more unique models with icons of their own. But you're right, putting the character specific icons on a seperate page is a good idea to reduce the size of this one. -- 20:53, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I present List of unique character icons. Now which icons should stay on this page to represent a type of race that's so far unique to these characters? -- 21:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm unsure... some of them, like Vashj, can be used for Naga Sea Witch. Same goes for Horusath and others.


 * I'd only delete from this page the ones who have icons representing their race, like Khadgar or Varian.


 * Illidan and Arthas, for example, could be considered races...


 * Or you could just add them (hero icons) under their race, like they were alternate versions of the icons.


 * --Lon-ami (talk) 09:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Trolls
shouldnt the ice and forest troll icons have the Trolls in there upgraded models? the buffed up ones, it would be just the males but still lol.--Maelstrong 13:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, but not for here, for WoWWiki:List of race and class icons - Non-playable humanoids - Trolls. It lists all the Trolls, but the Ice trolls are normal white/blue trolls.
 * 21:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

More animals
I compiled a (likely incomplete) list of some other animal icons. They're scalled down to 18 pixels. I added names for the mouseovers for many of them. 5:30 PM, 20 Jun 2009 (EDT) ager]]




 * Many of them are in List of race and class icons
 * 21:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Purge any duplicates if you like. It was easier to just make a list of all the animal icons I could find. 6:58 PM, 20 Jun 2009 (EDT)


 * Cleared, only left is the Sea Turtle, the only one not present in the list.
 * 23:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see treeant or really any of the plethora of aquatic creatures (yes there's a single generic fish, but I think it might be nice to see more).


 * [[Image:Ability Druid ForceofNature.png|18px|Treeant]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 01.png|18px|Yellowfin]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 02.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 03.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 04.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 05.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 06.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 07.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 08.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 09.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 10.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 11.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 12.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 13.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 14.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 19.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 20.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 21.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 22.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 23.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 24.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 25.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 26.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 27.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 28.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 29.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 30.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 31.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 32.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 33.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 34.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 35.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 36.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 37.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 38.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 39.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 40.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 41.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 42.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 43.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 44.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 45.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 46.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 47.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 48.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 49.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 50.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 51.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 52.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 53.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 54.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 55.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 56.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 57.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 58.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 59.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 60.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 61.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 62.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 63.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 64.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 65.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 66.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 67.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 68.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 69.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 70.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 71.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 72.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 73.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 74.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 75.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Fish 76.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Food 97 SunspringCarp.png|18px|Sunspring Carp]] [[Image:INV Misc MonsterHead 01.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc MonsterHead 02.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc MonsterHead 03.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc MonsterHead 04.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Shell 01.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Shell 02.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Shell 03.png|18px]] [[Image:INV Misc Shell 04.png|18px]]


 * [[File:INV Misc Fish 47.png]] For example, what the heck is that?? I've never even seen one, but it looks ferocious. I'm not sure if it's meant to be a whale or a fish or just a beast. 12:11 AM, 21 Jun 2009 (EDT)


 * It looks like a whale sort of. I was going to say a Monsterbelly but that already has an icon. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Naga lord? Air lord? Fire Lord?
I'm sorry if I sound stupid right now, but this is a pattern I've been seeing. We've got a bunch of different "races" here, though they aren't really "races", or even "sub-races".

I mean, naga lord? Any naga can be a lord of naga. It is far more then likely that Naj'entus is simply another naga anomaly (seeing as each one is radically different from another in some way or form), and it is far more then likely that the name of his model is simply describing him.

As for Air Lord and Fire Lord, well, they're not really "races" or "sub-races" either. The links both go to their respective evil masters (Ragnaros and Thunderaan), furthering my doubt. Now, if the Fire Lord image was an image of the Firelord from WC3, and the link went to the Firelord article, I'd be a bit more understanding, but it seems to target Ragnaros, so I'm not.

Anyways, "Air Lord" and "Fire Lord" are really more just occupations/titles then anything else, seeing that Cyrukh, who appears to be a different sub-race of fire elemental then Ragnaros, is also a Fire Lord. 03:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, yeah, and all the drakonids are dragons, after all.
 * I think it's fine as it's it. Those subraces, races, types or whatever are clearly more than just different from their brethren, so they deserve their own icon.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But they're not even "races" or "types". They're just single people. Thunderaan's the only "Air Lord". Naj'entus is just another naga anomaly. "Fire Lord" cannot have a single icon as two different "races" share that position. The drakonid thing isn't much of a point, seeing as there are many drakonids, and they are clearly a sub-race worthy of icons and a place here. But these are only single people; there's no reason to believe they're entire races or sub-races. Those icons are more unique character icons then race icons. 03:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * And even then, if these ARE actual races, why do they not have their own articles, and why are they not on the people who belong to these "races'" articles? 03:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think having more icons is fine. Why don't you just rename them on the article, if that's all that's bothering you. 10:28 PM, 8 Jul 2009 (EDT)


 * Why have them on the article though? They're not "races". They don't belong here. 02:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not really "more icons" anyways...they're all on the Unique Character icons page too, anyways. 02:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Are all icons lore-wise valid?
I would like to know where are some icons from. The icons of the following races were made but it isn't even known how they look like or were made from WoW models without being in WoW: dark trolls, Half-elf, Half-Kaldorei, Half-orc, Half-draenei, Tothrezim, Dark titan. So are they just invented or are their taken of somewhere? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of them come from the model viewer and then photoshopped by Varghedin, whom I think does an excellent job. 03:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, he does an excelent work, but the races I mentioned aren't in WoW model viewer, are they? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, he takes an already existing model, such as the blood elf, and edits it to form a half-elf. 19:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks. My last question, if we have never seen any half-draenei, how is it that there is an icon? (The only half-draeneis are Garona and Med'an who look mostly like orcs and Lantresor who looks like Rend Blackhand). Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You probably won't seen many, if any, half-breed models in WoW, but it's always nice to have icons for characters found in books. It's always nice for those that write fanfiction to have icons representing what they need as well. 20:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the answers. :) Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish I could make icons this cool...or at all. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Try downloading GIMP (open-source Photoshop) and do some tutorials. You may also need to learn some things about the wow data files as well. 9:34 AM, 28 Jul 2009 (EDT)
 * Oh okay. I have OSX though so things like the Model Viewer do not work great. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Minor question
Do "emberwyrms" and "magmawyrms" share the same model? Or are they sharing the icon just for now? Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 07:08, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe they share the same model, not too much different about them, except one is a raised red dragon the other a raised black dragon. 07:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, so the icon would be pretty much the same if you tried to make one of each. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)